Patricia Pez.

Dr. Cliff Interviews Pat Fish!

Pat Fish caught my eye a couple years ago, on a cable-TV documentary about women forging through male-dominated fields of study. Certainly, the world of tattooing qualifies as male-dominated! The stereotype of sweaty, seedy wharfside shops full of drunken sailors getting tattooed, is the reality of only a few decades ago. And yet here is Pat Fish, an accomplished, studied artist in her own right, making an international name for herself in the world of skin art.

I had to know more... Trixie & I went to her Santa Barbara shop. Trixie got a tattoo, and I got an interview. My tattoo will likely be installed around the middle of 2001.

Dr. Cliff:
When did tattooing start to make sense to you? Was it before, during, or after your degree in fine arts?

Pat Fish:
I remember seeing Janis Joplin showing off her bracelet to David Frost in a TV interview when I was about 11, and I had an apotheosis. I just knew I was going to have tattoos when I grew up, they were too cool. I'd never known anyone with them when I was a kid, but I can remember walking past the studios in Long Beach, CA at The Pike and the sound of the machines buzzing inside; it was such an adult secret world in there, clearly forbidden to me. Every so often I'll be walking into my studio and my employee will be already working inside and I'll be transported back to that memory, and I think it is good that kids understand that some things you gotta grow up before you can do them. I always throw out anyone under 18 from my shop. Especially crying babies! I say let 'em yearn!

Dr. Cliff:
Were you an incessant doodler as a child?

Pat Fish:
Yep. I was very dyslexic, in the days when that just meant stupid. So I couldn't do math well and still can't remember more than 3 phone numbers. BUT I could draw, and they couldn't take that away from me. So I got to have the identity of the kid who did the bulletin board displays. It meant they left me alone, so I just drew and read and waited to grow up. It was purgatory.

Dr. Cliff:
Why 'Fish'? Is that a given name, or a nickname you picked up? It sounds sort of biker-ish, you know, girls called fish, the big guy's always called tiny, and so on. Should we be worried that you're hanging with the wrong crowd?

Pat Fish:
I was an orphan raised by Russian adopted parents, even though I am Scotts-Irish, and I knew that I didn't want to wear their name when I was an adult. So as a kid I tried out different names, and finally I settled on Pat Fish. Fish is one of very few words in the English language that are both singular and plural (e.g.: deer, flash........) and it easily translates into any language. Spanish: Patricia Pez. Irish Gaelic: Padrigeen ni Iasc.

Dr. Cliff:
I realize that, as a professional, ethical treatment of your clients is of prime importance, but are there any tattoos that you can think back on, and really wish you hadn't done them?

Pat Fish:
I did a tiny bit of cosmetic work, even though my teacher Cliff Raven told me not to. He said "People who want makeup tattooed on want to be made perfect, and you can never succeed. Stick with making people more peculiar. Otherwise they'll never be satisfied and keep coming back and nagging at you." He was absolutely right and I learned my lesson and now won't touch anything cosmetic. I can easily refer them to others for that.

Dr. Cliff:
In a similar vein, the Hollywood cliche of a tap client is either someone in the bewildering depths of despair, or someone intoxicated. How often do you have to turn potential clients away because of issues like this? And have you ever tapped an anchor on a sailor's arm, with a little banner that says 'MOM' over it? If we're to believe the stereotype, that must have been an integral part of your training.

Pat Fish:
Where did you get this word TAP from? A reverse of my name? How sweet! Actually it sounds terribly crude, like a blood donor with a spigot in their vein.
Anyway, if they come in because they are in romantic despair we just play Patsy Cline records and go with it. Sometimes we put back on names we've already covered up.......how stupid is THAT! As for drunks, well, we tell them to take their happy ass off up the street and come back some other day. Nothing like getting barfed on during a tattoo to ruin your day!

Dr. Cliff:
I bet a 1959 hearse, fully loaded with needles, ink, and a couple of really big dogs, will still blow any modern SUV right off the road. Any thoughts on this?

Pat Fish:
Actually in my long-term plan I'm semi-retiring to Ireland
and working the motorcycle rallies and festivals as a mobile tattoo artist there, and in my dreams I'll be pulling an Airstream behind the 1959 Cadillac hearse.
And of course I'll have the Irish Wolfhounds with me. There are some things in life that are non-negotiable, and having the very best car and the very best dogs, well, they're vital.

AND of course the very best tattoos!

Dr. Cliff:
Dentistry started really worrying about infection control around 1982, and since then, the cost of delivering care has dramatically increased, because gloves, masks etc cost money, and because an instrument's useful life is shortened with every cycle of the autoclave. Also, latex allergy is becoming a concern for dental office workers. How has infection control changed the way you make art?

Pat Fish:
I was extremely fortunate that during my training Raven made it clear that if I found any of the sterilization aspects of the job tedious I was morally unfit for the occupation. So it has always been something that I have done as a matter of course. I did become somewhat latex allergic a few years back, so now I wear nitrile gloves, which are blue and look snazzy.

I am also working with representatives of the government to try and affect the new laws which are looming over us in California. They have the potential to put the industry out of business completely, and I'm doing what I can to be a voice of reason so that they have input from the profession.

Dr. Cliff:
Again referencing dentistry, I hardly ever have to deal with someone who has done their own dental work, except in cases of psychological merit. Yet you must see some people with jailhouse blue-lines and hand-needle work, coming to you to fix or finish what they've started. Is that type of case particularly frustrating?

Pat Fish:
Almost anything can be covered up, given enough time and money. But most people say "I don't want it to be any bigger than it already is, I just want it gone" which is an impossibility. Or they'll say they need a "touchup" when it is like asking for a tune-up when you need an engine rebuild. If they have ANY amount of bad attitude we tell them their tattoo is a hopeless piece of shit and they are scarred for life and there's nothing we can to do help them. If they are nice, we make it disappear under new good art. Just like I suspect some of these people never get good service in restaurants, they bring their movie with them.

Dr. Cliff:
My sister has nearly earned her BA in fine arts, and she wants to be a skin artist. What should she do next?

Pat Fish:

Geeze, and here I was thinking you really wanted to interview me. Now I feel like when you get those IMPORTANT QUESTIONNAIRE ENCLOSED envelopes in the mail and like hell they want your opinions, they want a donation.

Here is my advice for people who are seeking an apprenticeship:

You will need to develop a portfolio of drawings, and find the best tattoo artists you can to put your own drawings on you. Hopefully as you do this you will click with one of them and they will see you have artistic talent. It is about us wanting to have you join the profession, and to have artists feel that way about you it is necessary that you approach the situation with humility and eagerness to help out around the shop while you learn.

As you have probably already noticed, tattooing is still a guild-trade, where you must be accepted in by the present members. It is definitely not something that teaching yourself is adequate for. Getting a starter kit from a biker magazine will guarantee that you learn bad habits, and in California as of January 1st 1999 AB 186 makes it a misdemeanor for an unlicensed person to tattoo outside of a state licensed tattoo studio. This carries a $1,000 fine for EACH day you tattoo. If this is not already true where you live it will soon be.

This is not something to teach yourself. Not only will you scar people, but without an autoclave and knowledge of cross-contamination and universal precautions you will be likely to make your clients and yourself sick. To really understand the ways to do this job right you need a mentor. If none of the local tattoo artists where you are have been willing to teach you, the deal is :

they're jealous of your talent
they don't want yet another scratcher kid around
your art ability sucks.

I don't know which of these is true, since I have not seen examples of your art or tattoo art. Photos are the best credibility.

But if no locals will help you, and you really want to be a tattoo artist, you will have to travel to wherever you find someone who believes in you enough to want you to become one of us. Harsh, but true. If you don't, no matter what your friends say, your work will be amateur and your knowledge of sterilization procedures inadequate. You can come and talk to me, sure, but I would not be interested in hiring anyone as an apprentice that I didn't already know and I'm sure my peers feel the same way.
Good luck.

Dr. Cliff:
I saw a guy once who had a blue-line of a watch on his wrist. The time on the watch was 5:00, so for him, it was always quitting time. What's the funniest/cleverest thing someone has come to you for?

Pat Fish:
In the Church of the Subgenius we have symbol that is a watch speared by a dagger, representing getting off the clock and getting slack. It makes a great wrist band tattoo.
For funny, how about the girl who got a 'Marvin the Martian' and next to it, where the name of her ex-boyfriend was, we made Planet X!

Dr. Cliff:
Is the Guinness really better in Ireland? And do they call Celtic Art Celtic Art, or just Art? You know, like English muffins in England are just called 'muffins'?

Pat Fish:
I recommend anyone visiting Dublin goes on the double-decker bus tour and gets off at the Guinness brewery and has one at the Source. Then there will be no doubt about it. You'll be in a fine mood for the rest of the tour! The Irish have been extremely accepting of the work that I am doing in the Celtic Revival, bringing to life again the patterns from the illuminated manuscripts and carved stones in the skin of modern Celts. The archivists at Trinity College, Dublin who have the Book of Kells also have a photo album I donated of my tattoo work.

Dr. Cliff:
Physicians jokingly claim that "MD" stands for "My Decision", and I tell patients "DDS" means "Do what the Doctor Says". What does BA stand for?

Pat Fish:
Could be Blarney Artist, or Bullshit Artist, don't you think? Like my mentor Painless Jeff Baker would say "If you can't blind 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit." But maybe I'll say it stands for

"Be Art" - GET A TATTOO !

Well, there it is, the world according to a studied, degreed skin-artist. Check out the whole Pat Fish deal at her own site- www.luckyfish.net

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Dr. Cliff:	When did tattooing start to make sense to you? Was it before, during, or after your degree in fine arts?
Pat Fish:	I remember seeing Janis Joplin showing off her bracelet to David Frost in a TV interview when I was about 11, and I had an apotheosis. I just knew I was going to have tattoos when I grew up, they were too cool. I'd never known anyone with them when I was a kid, but I can remember walking past the studios in Long Beach, CA at The Pike and the sound of the machines buzzing inside; it was such an adult secret world in there, clearly forbidden to me. Every so often I'll be walking into my studio and my employee will be already working inside and I'll be transported back to that memory, and I think it is good that kids understand that some things you gotta grow up before you can do them. I always throw out anyone under 18 from my shop. Especially crying babies! I say let 'em yearn!
Dr. Cliff:	Were you an incessant doodler as a child?
Pat Fish:	Yep. I was very dyslexic, in the days when that just meant stupid. So I couldn't do math well and still can't remember more than 3 phone numbers. BUT I could draw, and they couldn't take that away from me. So I got to have the identity of the kid who did the bulletin board displays. It meant they left me alone, so I just drew and read and waited to grow up. It was purgatory.
Dr. Cliff:	Why 'Fish'? Is that a given name, or a nickname you picked up? It sounds sort of biker-ish, you know, girls called fish, the big guy's always called tiny, and so on. Should we be worried that you're hanging with the wrong crowd?
Pat Fish:	I was an orphan raised by Russian adopted parents, even though I am Scotts-Irish, and I knew that I didn't want to wear their name when I was an adult. So as a kid I tried out different names, and finally I settled on Pat Fish. Fish is one of very few words in the English language that are both singular and plural (e.g.: deer, flash........) and it easily translates into any language. Spanish: Patricia Pez. Irish Gaelic: Padrigeen ni Iasc.
Dr. Cliff:	I realize that, as a professional, ethical treatment of your clients is of prime importance, but are there any tattoos that you can think back on, and really wish you hadn't done them?
Pat Fish:	I did a tiny bit of cosmetic work, even though my teacher Cliff Raven told me not to. He said "People who want makeup tattooed on want to be made perfect, and you can never succeed. Stick with making people more peculiar. Otherwise they'll never be satisfied and keep coming back and nagging at you." He was absolutely right and I learned my lesson and now won't touch anything cosmetic. I can easily refer them to others for that.
Dr. Cliff:	In a similar vein, the Hollywood cliche of a tap client is either someone in the bewildering depths of despair, or someone intoxicated. How often do you have to turn potential clients away because of issues like this? And have you ever tapped an anchor on a sailor's arm, with a little banner that says 'MOM' over it? If we're to believe the stereotype, that must have been an integral part of your training.
Pat Fish:	Where did you get this word TAP from? A reverse of my name? How sweet! Actually it sounds terribly crude, like a blood donor with a spigot in their vein. Anyway, if they come in because they are in romantic despair we just play Patsy Cline records and go with it. Sometimes we put back on names we've already covered up.......how stupid is THAT! As for drunks, well, we tell them to take their happy ass off up the street and come back some other day. Nothing like getting barfed on during a tattoo to ruin your day!
Dr. Cliff:	I bet a 1959 hearse, fully loaded with needles, ink, and a couple of really big dogs, will still blow any modern SUV right off the road. Any thoughts on this?
Pat Fish:	Actually in my long-term plan I'm semi-retiring to Ireland and working the motorcycle rallies and festivals as a mobile tattoo artist there, and in my dreams I'll be pulling an Airstream behind the 1959 Cadillac hearse. And of course I'll have the Irish Wolfhounds with me. There are some things in life that are non-negotiable, and having the very best car and the very best dogs, well, they're vital. AND of course the very best tattoos!
Dr. Cliff:	Dentistry started really worrying about infection control around 1982, and since then, the cost of delivering care has dramatically increased, because gloves, masks etc cost money, and because an instrument's useful life is shortened with every cycle of the autoclave. Also, latex allergy is becoming a concern for dental office workers. How has infection control changed the way you make art?
Pat Fish:	I was extremely fortunate that during my training Raven made it clear that if I found any of the sterilization aspects of the job tedious I was morally unfit for the occupation. So it has always been something that I have done as a matter of course. I did become somewhat latex allergic a few years back, so now I wear nitrile gloves, which are blue and look snazzy. I am also working with representatives of the government to try and affect the new laws which are looming over us in California. They have the potential to put the industry out of business completely, and I'm doing what I can to be a voice of reason so that they have input from the profession.
Dr. Cliff:	Again referencing dentistry, I hardly ever have to deal with someone who has done their own dental work, except in cases of psychological merit. Yet you must see some people with jailhouse blue-lines and hand-needle work, coming to you to fix or finish what they've started. Is that type of case particularly frustrating?
Pat Fish:	Almost anything can be covered up, given enough time and money. But most people say "I don't want it to be any bigger than it already is, I just want it gone" which is an impossibility. Or they'll say they need a "touchup" when it is like asking for a tune-up when you need an engine rebuild. If they have ANY amount of bad attitude we tell them their tattoo is a hopeless piece of shit and they are scarred for life and there's nothing we can to do help them. If they are nice, we make it disappear under new good art. Just like I suspect some of these people never get good service in restaurants, they bring their movie with them.
Dr. Cliff:	My sister has nearly earned her BA in fine arts, and she wants to be a skin artist. What should she do next?
Pat Fish:	Geeze, and here I was thinking you really wanted to interview me. Now I feel like when you get those IMPORTANT QUESTIONNAIRE ENCLOSED envelopes in the mail and like hell they want your opinions, they want a donation. Here is my advice for people who are seeking an apprenticeship: You will need to develop a portfolio of drawings, and find the best tattoo artists you can to put your own drawings on you. Hopefully as you do this you will click with one of them and they will see you have artistic talent. It is about us wanting to have you join the profession, and to have artists feel that way about you it is necessary that you approach the situation with humility and eagerness to help out around the shop while you learn. As you have probably already noticed, tattooing is still a guild-trade, where you must be accepted in by the present members. It is definitely not something that teaching yourself is adequate for. Getting a starter kit from a biker magazine will guarantee that you learn bad habits, and in California as of January 1st 1999 AB 186 makes it a misdemeanor for an unlicensed person to tattoo outside of a state licensed tattoo studio. This carries a $1,000 fine for EACH day you tattoo. If this is not already true where you live it will soon be. This is not something to teach yourself. Not only will you scar people, but without an autoclave and knowledge of cross-contamination and universal precautions you will be likely to make your clients and yourself sick. To really understand the ways to do this job right you need a mentor. If none of the local tattoo artists where you are have been willing to teach you, the deal is : they're jealous of your talent they don't want yet another scratcher kid around your art ability sucks. I don't know which of these is true, since I have not seen examples of your art or tattoo art. Photos are the best credibility. But if no locals will help you, and you really want to be a tattoo artist, you will have to travel to wherever you find someone who believes in you enough to want you to become one of us. Harsh, but true. If you don't, no matter what your friends say, your work will be amateur and your knowledge of sterilization procedures inadequate. You can come and talk to me, sure, but I would not be interested in hiring anyone as an apprentice that I didn't already know and I'm sure my peers feel the same way. Good luck.
Dr. Cliff:	I saw a guy once who had a blue-line of a watch on his wrist. The time on the watch was 5:00, so for him, it was always quitting time. What's the funniest/cleverest thing someone has come to you for?
Pat Fish:	In the Church of the Subgenius we have symbol that is a watch speared by a dagger, representing getting off the clock and getting slack. It makes a great wrist band tattoo. For funny, how about the girl who got a 'Marvin the Martian' and next to it, where the name of her ex-boyfriend was, we made Planet X!
Dr. Cliff:	Is the Guinness really better in Ireland? And do they call Celtic Art Celtic Art, or just Art? You know, like English muffins in England are just called 'muffins'?
Pat Fish:	I recommend anyone visiting Dublin goes on the double-decker bus tour and gets off at the Guinness brewery and has one at the Source. Then there will be no doubt about it. You'll be in a fine mood for the rest of the tour! The Irish have been extremely accepting of the work that I am doing in the Celtic Revival, bringing to life again the patterns from the illuminated manuscripts and carved stones in the skin of modern Celts. The archivists at Trinity College, Dublin who have the Book of Kells also have a photo album I donated of my tattoo work.
Dr. Cliff:	Physicians jokingly claim that "MD" stands for "My Decision", and I tell patients "DDS" means "Do what the Doctor Says". What does BA stand for?
Pat Fish:	Could be Blarney Artist, or Bullshit Artist, don't you think? Like my mentor Painless Jeff Baker would say "If you can't blind 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit." But maybe I'll say it stands for "Be Art" - GET A TATTOO !